Dorothy Dalton was a member of Save Our Sons (SOS), and a strong supporter of her son, Tony, being a draft resister. She had been a member of the Communist Party in the early 50s, along with her husband Les; she got involved in many community projects throughout her life. In this excerpt, Dorothy’s son discusses some of her involvement in anti-Vietnam War action.

Transcript

Alex: Courtesy of the news articles that you and I think your father collected – there’s a couple that I’ve found looking through them where it’s – because your mom doesn’t seem just to have sort of stayed at home and supported you. There’s stories of her standing up in court, actively supporting you, there’s this great one – “Mothers: we give backing to resistors” was the was the headline. 

Tony: That’s right. 

Alex: Had you expected her to be quite so publicly in support? Or was that because of the newspapers actively asking her?

Tony: No – I mean that was just what she did. Just what she did, she became a member of Save Our Sons. But you see, she doesn’t become a part of the Fairlea Five, which is interesting. I think there was probably a hesitancy there about going and getting arrested. I never asked her. There’s just so much going on at the time. I never said “Why weren’t you there?” I think it would have – there would have been a bit of hesitancy from my mum. I don’t know. That’s my guess, is that she was hesitant about making that sort of civil disobedience step.

Alex: But she’s obviously involved in other sorts of things.

Tony: She’s involved in driving other draft – you see Barry Johnson was a draft resister and he stood for parliament, while being a draft resister.

Alex: Oh yes, I have read that. 

Tony: She was very involved in that – 

Alex: In supporting his campaign. 

Tony: There was a network of them down in Moorabbin.

Alex: Did your couch ever get used for other draft resisters? Or was that too close to home.

Tony: I doubt it. I suspect it was partly – you never knew, in a sense, as to when, what – when the police were looking. So that’s the ’72 election. Barry Johnson’s underground, and they’re providing active support. And my parents are still living in Moorabbin; as I say, later on, they moved to Carlton, but I just – my hunch is that there was just a little bit of hesitancy there.

Alexandra Pierce  

Did she march in the moratorium marches? 

Tony Dalton  

Yeah, yeah, did all that. And then later on the movement against uranium mining. 

Alexandra Pierce  

Okay. So she continued that… 

Tony Dalton  

She was, again, as part of that; again, my father was sort of, you know, became quite prominent in that in the sense that he was organisationally involved. On whatever committee structure was for, for MORM[?]. And then he wrote a – was like a self published booklet for MORM at the time, which is, you know, about the nuclear fuel cycle.

Alex: Do you think your mum would have got involved in SOS and so on, if you, for instance, had been much younger or much older?

Tony:  I can’t say. I mean, certainly, my involvement was, yeah, was a real spurt. And in some ways, my involvement in – because I’m older than my brother to start with, and he actually gets involved in other things; he goes to Adelaide to do his university degree, which is very unusual, and gets involved in what I’d call cultural politics as well as anti-war stuff – but I’m really at the frontline, because – partly because of my age at the time. But I think it’s really my involvement that gets them going again, politically, yes. That’s my sense of it is, that my involvement in the anti war movement, anti conscription movement, stimulates them.

If you know a Melbourne woman who was involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

Margret RoadKnight was, and is, a folk singer. She credits (or blames!) folk singers Glen Tomasetti and Malvina Reynolds for bringing her into the folk scene during the Vietnam War period. She performed at many rallies protesting the war; in this excerpt, she reflects on the May 1970 Moratorium.

Transcript

Margret: I don’t look back and say, Oh, we were young and foolish. No, no, we weren’t that foolish. It’s almost the done thing to look back and say, Oh, yeah, well, silly me when I was young. No: it was the exact opposite for me, I was branching out and discovering things and people and issues and what have you, because I never went to university, so I even blame the folk music scene for being my university, because really through the songs, and the scene was, well, that’s how I got to study, study in quotes there politics and poetry and parody and, and history and geography and whatever, through the scene and the songs. And then you’d get tapped on the shoulder to come and sing for various causes. And usually, well, if I agree with the cause – almost always I did – happy to do it. You look back and think, should have stamped my foot occasionally and said production values should be up a bit higher than that. I look at the classic photo of me on the back of a truck in Bourke Street, I think – and the whole of Bourke Street is locked down with half a million… 

Alex: That’s the first moratorium I think? 

Margret: Yeah the moratorium, yeah. And I mean, there’s a few photos of that, and one of them you can see Jim Cairns behind me on the truck. But if you look closely, you know, there’s one microphone. I’ve got an acoustic, we didn’t do plug-in guitars back then. And I have an acoustic guitar and one microphone. And well, for start, you needs a minimum of two, outdoors with you know, rather large gathering on the back of a truck. However, that seems to work. That was part of the tapestry that obviously did the trick.

Alex: So aside from the shocking production values, what was that like to perform at the moratorium? 

Margret: Look, if it wasn’t for the photo I wouldn’t even remember, I mean, I remember being – really it is the photos, thank goodness some people took photos or whatever. We didn’t tend to document things like everything is documented now from womb to tomb, you know. So it is rather good to go through them; I have heaps of photos. I wish I’d been clever enough to write on the back of them where and when and who. It works as a “Oh, yes. Oh, that’s right.” I don’t remember who asked me to do it. I don’t remember who else was on the back of the truck apart from you know, knowing that obviously, Jim had a few words to say. I mean, it was also one of you know – that was the beginning of the women’s movement sort of era, you know, you’d be singing for this that and the other but I never went to a consciousness raising group session or anything. You know, I was, I never was also one of those other people who did all the hard work, like the organising or the licking of stamps, and all of that sort of thing. I just, I did the glamour stuff. You know, the – you do something for three minutes and people clap. It was good to be involved, happy to be involved. And if I felt like it was helping the cause, so much the better. 

If you know a Melbourne woman who was involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

Shirley Winton got involved in protesting against the Vietnam War particularly through the Monash Labor Club. She is still involved in protesting against war today. In this excerpt, she talks about the perhaps less glamorous work of ‘paste ups’ and starting conversations with people about why she opposed the Vietnam War.

Transcript:

Shirley: We went – we did paste ups in the middle of the night, we used to go to paste ups, and we…

Alex: Just on like neighborhood streets?

Shirley: Yeah, on neighbourhood – and in the city. And this was at the height of where the, the anti Vietnam War protestors, particularly like the Monash Labor Club I suppose – when was raising money for the NLF, so there was really, anyone associated, you know, with even opposition to the Vietnam War was really maligned. I mean, you know, we were just pariahs. And so we went and did quite a lot of paste ups. They were the kind of the, the brave things, the [unclear] at July the fourth was a protest because – you, you must remember that at that time, particularly with the support for the NLF, was like equal to treachery. So even opposition to the – I remember handing out leaflets in the city, and just – and we were just, you know, abused, and – oh, yeah, this is before, this is two years before the moratorium, you know, and that just shows how quickly the public opinion can change. And, so we got – we were abused as communists, as traitors, we should be thrown in jail, all those kinds of things. And so I think some of us felt quite, you know, isolated. So there was a tendency to kind of join together. And that’s where the women are really – we were having that solidarity, because there was – I remember there were with the, I had a group of about, we had a group of about eight women who were involved in the Monash Labor Club, and then later, even beyond that, who were involved in the anti-Vietnam War activities. And it was the things we did, we did together, because that – there was this – it was bad enough being against the Vietnam War, but being a woman who’s being outspoken – and I remember I was waitressing at the time, you know, to make money, to raise money for my union fees. And I mentioned the war to one of the other people working there and I was – I thought I was going to get the sack. I mean, it was just that, really that bad. And in fact my partner when he was – this is something else, but he was, he’s from South Australia, and he became, also became involved in the anti-Vietnam War. And he said in 1967, or 66, there were only like, 30 of them, just walking down the street with a placard saying, opposing the war in Vietnam, and people would be walking past them and spitting at them… You know, I mean, that was, that was the climate, that was the climate that the media had built up, as well. So we did a lot of letterboxing. And I think that one of the, some of us in particular were, and women were kind of – I thought the women that I was with anyway, had a – quite a strong view of that we need to get outside that kind of left bloc, you know, that we need to do much more outreach work to connect with, with a broader community and, and so there was a lot of letterboxing. And some of the places, like places that we worked, we worked at, we handed out leaflets and tried to engage in conversation.

If you know a Melbourne woman who was involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

Martha Kinsman was a president of the Monash Labor Club, and identified as a Trotskyist. Throughout her time at Monash she participated in many demonstrations and contributed enormously to the political discussions around Australia’s involvement in the Vietnam War. In this excerpt she talks about the decision to actively support the NLF (National Liberation Front, whom Australian soldiers were fighting in Vietnam). The ‘Albert’ mentioned below is Albert Langer, a well-known (one might even say notorious) figure on the Monash campus.

Transcript:

Martha: We got, yeah, we got some hate mail. This was after we decided to support the NLF, rather than just protest against the war, which was a big, big step forward. And I don’t think it was to do with me being president. I think … let me go through what I remember. Dave Nadal was president from 1966 to 1967. And – but there was an ASLF … there were two – ASLF was the Australian Student Labor Federation, Australia wide. There was – and they used to meet, I think in the May holidays, from memory, because I can’t remember ever going to one in summer. There was one in 1966. And then there was one in May 1967. And that’s where the idea first came up – and it was in Sydney from recollection; it must have been in Sydney because I wouldn’t have gone otherwise. I certainly didn’t have the money. It was always in Melbourne or Sydney, I think; sometimes it was in Brisbane. That’s where, and I can’t remember whether it was formally raised, but that’s certainly where the first discussions came up about, not just protesting the Vietnam War, but in fact, not necessarily supporting the NLF, but recognising that right was on their side, that it was their war, not ours. I’m sure Dave Nadal went to that ASLF one. And I’m sure because he’s been involved in Victorian politics all his life, that he will remember that better than I do. So that, when I came back from that – must have been about June, there’s a huge amount of press about it, in the Victorian press, in particular. That meeting of the Labor Club, which I went to just as an ordinary person, you know, member, there was – somebody moved a motion about protesting against the Vietnam War, or, you know, confirming our opposition to the Vietnam War. And I got up and said, That’s not good enough, what we should be doing is actively supporting the NLF. And I don’t think anything happened at that stage. It wasn’t accepted as a motion or anything. But after that meeting, Peter Price came and talked to me and said he and John Price, his older brother, had been thinking along the same lines and they from recollection had been influenced by – they certainly weren’t Maoists – they had been influenced by Bertrand Russell. So I went and had a look at Bertrand Russell and found that, you know, this great philosopher was also saying something similar. So then there were a number of meetings about getting this motion together. And I can’t remember whether I moved it and Price seconded it, or Price moved it and I seconded it, anyway it was the two of us together, and it got through. And immediately, the Maoists sort of got interested in us, you know, they couldn’t allow this to happen. I think – there were a number of meetings and sort of committees and groups of people, and Albert was certainly involved in it as was Nadal. I don’t recall, however, that the other famous Maoist, Mike Hyde, was at that stage involved. I don’t think so. And then we moved this motion. And then because Dave Nadel’s term was up, there was a whole issue of who would get to be president and Albert, who been vice president didn’t want to be president and didn’t think he’d have the support – thought, I think, you know, wanted to stage manage it. And so they organised for me to be president. 

If you know a Melbourne woman who was involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

I’m not sorry that I’m featuring Jean McLean again, because she just has so many amazing stories. The generally-acknowledged leader of the Melbourne Save Our Sons, McLean was a delegate to a Paris conference for women of the belligerent nations; and she also visited North Vietnam, while Australia was fighting in Vietnam…

Transcript:

Jean: And then there was a conference in 1968, the Paris meeting. … I went via the Soviet Union. Then, off I went to Paris. The conference was in a fantastic chateau. Never seen anything like it. Anyway, so they were all women from belligerent nations. The conference was called that. And out of that connection, those connections, it also got involved in the moratorium, which was, you know, the movement started there and then came here. But it was there that the Vietnamese women, Madame Binh from the south and Madam Cam from the north, invited me to visit North Vietnam. Which I did. Which was a pretty incredible exercise. 

Alex: How long was the conference for? In Paris? Was it just a few days? 

Jean: A week long. 

Alex: And was it organised meetings, or just, sort of, hanging around with all the women?

Jean: Well, yeah, no, it was meetings. We discussed the various conscriptions and things in the different countries. The Japanese were – there were quite a few of them there, and they were very vocal. Yes, so we –

Alex: Did you get to speak very much?

Jean: We only had one presentation. The rest of it were group meetings, trying to work out what to do and how to do it. But in Paris, at that conference, I met Jean-Paul Sartre – he was running a draft resistance! He had this little office in an old French building. 

Alex: That’s incredible. 

Jean: I went up the stairs – you know, so I’m sitting there, talking to Jean-Paul Sartre about draft resistance. But he was just like everybody else. He was working away. …  

Alex: So you went to Vietnam a couple of years later, was it?

Jean: In 1969. The next year. 

Alex: Just the next year. How long did you have in North Vietnam?

Jean: Two weeks. You know, I’d think twice about tearing into a war zone now. It didn’t seem – I thought it was perfectly all right. Well, because they said, “We’ll keep you safe.” And I thought, they’re such nice people, they’d know what they were doing. And, of course, they did. But I travelled right up with them, right up to the Chinese border. And to Hai Phong. Something like that. Where there was a Russian ship and a Chinese ship, and they were both giving aid to Vietnam. To the north. But they weren’t talking to each other. So when – it’s marvellous – when the Chinese were getting off the boat, they all walked that way, and when the Russians got off the boat, they walked that way. And they were taken to separate areas.

If you know of a Melbourne woman involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment! 

Joan Coxsedge was a significant member of the Melbourne Save Our Sons, and was one of the Fairlea Five who were jailed for trespass. She got involved with SOS through her local branch of the Labor party. Here she discusses what it was like to attend army induction mornings at the Richmond barracks, and protesting at a Billy Graham event.

Transcript

Joan: And one of the things I disliked more than anything was induction period, at the Swan Street barracks. We used to go get up at the crack of dawn and go there with our placards. And the families were celebrating with champagne for their sons to go off to fight in Vietnam. And quite honestly, the atmosphere was just so bad. And we’d be rolling up and singing a different song. And we were not popular. We were not popular. I hated those – hated those mornings.

Alex: What made you keep doing them? If you hated them? 

Joan:  God knows; you felt you should, you know, but I can’t say I enjoyed them. I didn’t. Because you know, you had to get up at the crack of dawn. That’s bad enough, but then having to drive there and get abused is worse. One of the things that I have never forgotten – you might have heard about this – was a demonstration against Billy Graham. God, well, it was only a handful of us that turned up, most of them wouldn’t have a bar – there was a hard core of us if you like – we were, I think that you have to admit there was a hardcore, and I was in that, of course. And he had a crusade held at the Myer Music Bowl. And we thought well, he was very close to Richard Nixon, very pro war. Fair target. We’ll have a go. And then of course to do that we met in St Kilda Road. I remember that, feeling fairly apprehensive. And we had our placards, and we marched – and they’re all praying or doing something, I can’t remember really, but I think they were all praying. He was up there on the stage going for his life, as Billy Graham does, because I can’t stand the man but anyway, that’s beside the point. We walked up behind him and held up our placards. Nobody said a word. Not a sound was said. He ignored us completely, you could have heard a pin drop. And we were just holding up these things behind him. He didn’t move a muscle, not a muscle. And so we just stood there for a while. And then we quietly filed out again, and stood there at the back and waited till they all came out. And then some of them were saying, you know, what was all that about, sort of thing, you’re thinking – dull cretins, can’t you read? We’ve made it very clear, it was anti war, stuff like that. But he was the master of the group. Formidable, very formidable. But that was one I won’t forget in a hurry. Because I can remember the silence, I can remember the absolute silence. And we didn’t say anything. We weren’t chanting or doing anything, we just held up our signs, we decided in advance that we wouldn’t try and disrupt it, that we’d just make our peaceful protest. And that was it.

If you know of a Melbourne woman involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

Caroline Hogg was involved in Labor politics from the late 1960s, and opposed the Vietnam War and conscription from very early on. Here she discusses a ‘fill in a falsie’ party, and being at the 1970 moratorium.

Transcript:

Caroline: And I remember going to a party at Jean McLean’s place where we all had to fill in a falsie: we had to sort of fill in a registration slip with false names, addresses, details, to just make things as difficult as possible for the authorities.

Alex: What sorts of people were at the fill in a falsie occasion? 

Caroline: Yeah, my age or older. I mean, I was one of the really young ones at that stage, I would have just been in my 20s. Jean would have been seven or eight years older. But – Labor people… because the McLeans moved in an arts circle, there were quite a lot of well known and creative people there; there were a lot of people there. It wasn’t the only fill in a falsie party that she had, I’m sure, but it was the only one I went to. And it was great fun. We drank and we – we let our imaginations run riot. …

Alex: Since you obviously knew Jean, did you get involved in Save Our Sons? Or were you involved in other sorts of things rather than joining that organization?

Caroline: I was involved in other sorts of things. I certainly gave them, gave them support of course, but as I said to you, I was in the Collingwood – I got into local government by accident, so we don’t need to go into that, in 1969. And I spent the whole of the 70s as a Collingwood councillor. And most of the people on that council by the way were very anti – it was all-Labor council in those days. So people were anti conscription and anti the Vietnam War. You weren’t in the Labor Party as a supporter of the war, generally speaking.

Alex: Did you get a chance to march in any of the moratoriums for instance? 

Caroline: All of them, all of them.

Alex: Right. What was that like? 

Caroline: Oh, well, it was terrific. The first one particularly: it was a very heady experience because the shock jocks of the day had led everybody to expect violence and armed strife and it was the most peaceful and beautiful experience. It really was and it was a lovely day, and you saw all your friends and there was great music playing somewhere. It was, it was terrific. And the other ones that followed and the other protest marches that weren’t necessarily called moratoriums, they were all well organised and terrific. And I would want to call out Sam Goldbloom as being one of the organizers of the moratorium movement. He was fabulous. He was also very tall, so we could see him and hear him when he boomed out at us. His daughter’s still alive. His three daughters.

Alex: is that Sandra Zurbo?

Caroline: yep …  She roped me in as a draft counselor. It involved young men if they were faced with filling in their form, or if they’d been – if they’d been called up, just coming for general advice. I think only two or three people ever came. But there was a notice up in your area with your telephone number that people could pop in. And a couple did. 

If you know of a Melbourne woman involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

I’m doubling up here, but the first story here in particular, from Ceci Cairns (member of Save Our Sons), is just too good not to include. In this excerpt, Ceci remembers some of the things she did while campaigning against the Vietnam War.

Transcript

Ceci: I went to meetings, I did everything. And eventually we were harbouring draft resisters, driving them around, having adventures. You know, it was pretty adventurous and funny. Sort of very funny things happened. Like the day I stole a car. Very funny things. I lived in South Melbourne at the time, and when we drove draft resisters around, we tried to get different cars. Because we knew we were being watched and followed, and everything. And how much we knew, I’m not sure, but we just were very careful. So I used to sometimes borrow my grandmother’s Mercedes Benz, or I’d borrow someone else’s car. 

Anyway, one day, we ran out of cars, and Jeanie said, “Well, look, you’ll find–” gave me a set of keys to a blue Holden, and said, “Look, the car will be parked halfway along your street.” So I walked out of my house, walked halfway along the street, and there was a blue Holden. And it was open. And I thought, oh, that’s a bit peculiar. Anyway, I hopped in, and on the front seat was a packet with fresh, hot chips on it. And I thought, that’s funny. So I ate a chip, and put the key in, drove off. Get to the meeting place, I’ve taken the wrong car. I mean, I’ve stolen a car. So the absolute nightmare was, what if I get caught in a stolen car? [laughing]

Alex: With a draft resister. 

Ceci: Yes! So I thought, I’ve just got to get back to that car park, get rid of this car – so I just drove back. By this time, it was about three quarters of an hour later, because by the time we realised what had happened – and where I was living was opposite the South Melbourne football ground. And it was a football day, so there were no car parks anywhere near where I took the car from. I had to park it again about a mile away. And so that was one of the sort of mad sort of adventures that happened. [laughing] Yeah, it’s very funny. But it’s a sort of – breaking the law on all fronts, it was getting a bit too much. 

Alex: Were you involved in the more mundane things, like handing out pamphlets and those sorts of things?

Ceci: Oh God, yeah, all the time. Yeah. Absolutely. In fact, that’s what it was. And that’s – I mean, for instance, we used to meet on the library steps, outside the Melbourne Library in Swanston Street. And every – I can’t remember if it was every week or every month. A few of us met there with a sign saying Anti-Vietnam War – Stop The Draft, or whatever it was, Join Us. And we met there week after week after week for I don’t know how long. I mean, it seemed like years. And occasionally someone would come up, you know, we’d meet someone. But most of the time, we just did it. I learnt how long it takes to – you know, that movement was a movement that – my God, it didn’t build up to the moratorium quickly. It was that kind of drudgery that we – we just did. That gradually built up to the huge moratoriums.

If you know of a Melbourne woman involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

Sue McCulloch was heavily involved in the Draft Resisters Union, becoming the secretary and treasurer, as well as the Congress for International Cooperation and Disarmament (CICD). Here she talks about the siege of the student union building at Melbourne University.

Transcript:

Sue: And I was involved in the siege at Melbourne University. I think it surprised everybody, really, what it turned into. It was – the idea was to – again, to kind of embarrass the law enforcement agencies and the government by bringing attention to the fact that there were people who felt very strongly about conscription and the war. 

And the idea was to hold a kind of public demonstration in which four of the draft resisters would appear, and then be supposedly smuggled out of the building where they were to appear – but, in fact, what happened was that they appeared at the Melbourne University student union, and then it was decided to kind of barricade ourselves in, so that I think they could make media appearances. And there was this huge – it went on for several days, and we basically took over the union. The student union. And by the time the police arrived, in a kind of classic manoeuvre, I suppose, they did a dawn raid. I think, maybe, thinking they could catch people unawares. But by this stage, we’d barricaded ourselves in with chairs that went up and down the – you know, completely blocked the stairway of the several floors, and the draft resisters were not out of the building, they were, in fact, still in the building, hidden behind a very thin partition wall. There was a false wall that was discovered in one of the union rooms upstairs. And they were actually in the building when the police barged in, and eventually got their way up through this maze of chairs and came into the room where they were supposed to be. And there was nobody there. But, in fact, they were only, you know, like, a few centimetres away. And they said, you know, they had to be very careful not to cough, or not to alert anybody to them. And then, eventually, they were sort of smuggled out some time – I think, progressively, sometime after that. 

Alex: You were in the union house for the entire siege?

Sue: Yes, yes. I was. In fact, I was the voice on the radio. There was a radio station called Radio 3DR that was set up, an illegal radio station. Which was itself a rather terrifying thing to do, because that contravened the Broadcasting Act. And that actually had very serious penalties. And just before we were about to go on air, somebody told me what these penalties were, and they were like – I don’t know – ten years’ jail, and a huge fine. And I sort of went on, and I had no idea what to say. So they just went, “Right, you’re live to air now,” and, you know, and I started speaking. And I said something like, “Hello, this is Radio Resistance 3DR, and we’re trying to give power to the people.” And I think I sounded quite terrified, because I was just – I’d just been told of, you know, what we might be facing if we were caught.

If you know of a Melbourne woman involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!

Judy Maddigan went to Melbourne University and participated in several demonstrations against the Vietnam War. In this excerpt she discusses her motivations for being involved.

Transcript

Judy: I came from a family that wasn’t interested in politics at all – my parents would have voted Liberal all their lives; we used to live out in the seat of Kooyong which of course  was Robert Menzies’ seat – so I wasn’t interested at all in politics. When I went to university I didn’t – wasn’t involved in any political activities except for the Vietnam War. And I think a lot of people were involved in the Vietnam War – apart from the practice of war, we should never been fighting because it had absolutely nothing to do with us – but the system of selecting young men to go and fight, which was in my view it was extremely unfair – and the fact that they couldn’t get enough volunteers, I would have thought would show that most people in Australia think it’s totally inappropriate.

Alex: So if you came from a family that was, I guess, relatively conservative for the time, and so on, what made you I guess, aware of Vietnam? And what made you think that it was a war Australia shouldn’t have been involved in – like was the news, was it friends? 

Judy: I think it was probably more – more being at Melbourne University and all the newsletters came out, and other people talking to us about it. So – and there was huge amount of publicity about in the time, and the guys who refused to put their name in a hat, who got into terrible trouble. I think if I hadn’t been at university, I’m not sure it would have been different or not. But certainly, I think being at university and like, there were discussions about it all the time, people talking about it all the time. But even on the news, like there were so many – continually people disagreeing with us being there. And there’s still people saying you shouldn’t do that; if you want to send people you should have a national service system, so everyone has to go for six months or something. But just – I think the fact that it was so unfair, just, you know, bad luck. And if you think like in the time, so… ’60, bit over ’60, middle ’60 – most of us would be hard pressed to find Vietnam on a map if we’d been asked where it was. And I think the other thing – but I have a bit to do with RSLs – so I have corrected them on some cases, because a lot of those soldiers think that all those marches were against them. So I try and make it clear, it wasn’t about you. It was saying you should never have been sent there in the first place. I’ve never met an ex servicemen who fought in the Vietnam War, who thought was a good idea. And it’s very hard to meet an ex servicemen who thinks any war is a good idea. Which I think is the truth about it. And I think – but some of those people I think were devastated. And I think once again, that’s because the government put – kept putting out media about doing your service for the country and all of the rest of it, which was absolute crap of course, had nothing to do with Australia at all, Vietnam was never going to bomb Australia, and we lost the war anyway. What was the point?

Alex: And do you think at the time you were more concerned with Vietnam or conscription, or were they just so intertwined it’s a pointless question?

Judy: Well, they were very intertwined I suppose. I think it was mainly in Vietnam more because of the unfairness of it, which brought in, you know, the way they were conscripted, which, as I said, I think many people thought it was awful, which – it was awful. And I think – and even I’m thinking when I went to work, you know, people who are sitting there petrified on the day they used to draw the lots – numbers – out of the hat or whatever they did, you know, that one of their family members or their boyfriend or the man next door or something got drafted – so it made, it made the community really anxious and nervous, and that stuff was there till they stopped doing it, which was a great relief to all. 

If you know of a Melbourne woman involved in protesting against the Vietnam War, please leave a comment!